48 Hours Web Extra - Justice for Kari

Extra: Justice for Kari

"When Kari Baker's death was ruled a suicide in April 2006, law enforcement thought the case was closed. And it might have been, if not for Kari's mother and a growing circle of family, friends, investigators, attorneys and others who were convinced Kari had been murdered by her husband, Baptist Preacher Matt Baker, and were determined to get justice no matter how long it would take."

Some of the smartest, most tenacious people I know are in this photo. It was an honor to fight for Justice for Kari with each and every one of them. We all continue to work and pray for the final chapter of this "story" to conclude with justice for Kari's girls. Please pray with us.

48 Hours Web Extra - Vanessa Bulls Interrogation

Extra: Vanessa Bulls Interrogation

"Matt Baker told police he found his wife, Kari, dead in their bedroom with a goodbye note on the nightstand. Kari's family suspects Baker is spending time with a young parishioner. Four months after Kari's death, police question Vanessa Bulls about her relationship with the Baptist preacher. They believe she knows more than she's saying."

As much as Matt astounds me with his calm, indifferent air, I think Vanessa might top him. Not only is she indifferent, she has the most chilling way of being able to completely remove herself from the horror of which she speaks. I think if I were to discuss with someone a fictional murder of a fictional character in a murder fiction book I read, I'd have more emotion than this woman does talking to police while hiding what she knew about this cruel and premeditated murder of a woman she KNEW......that was murdered basically FOR her.....in the bed she slept with the woman's husband in. She seems completely emotionally unaffected by the murder of Kari. Completely removed from the horror. So matter of fact....are we done....can I go now.

Despite my feelings, I am very grateful to Vanessa for finally coming forward and telling the Judge, jury, Kari's family and the world what she knew about Kari's murder. I know it has changed her life and things are quite possibly almost unbearable for her right now. But I have to stop short of feeling sorry for her. Sure, she was a victim. Sorta. She's about 30% victim. 70% active participant in this tragedy. She could have kept this whole thing from happening. If she had only done what everyone else I know would have done, Kari would still be alive. Kensi and Grace would still have their Mother. But, alas, she did not. Now she has the chance to regain the balance of her life. She has the chance to grow from this. Change. Start over. Do better. Be better. And I pray that she does.

48 Hours Web Extra - Prison Interview with Matt

Matt Baker Talks to "48 Hours"
"In January 2010, Matt Baker was convicted of murdering his wife and sentenced to 65 years in prison. Nearly nine months later, Erin Moriarty interviewed him at the Polunsky Unit in Livingston, Texas - his fourth interview with '48 Hours.' Baker continues to maintain his innocence."

It is truly amazing that even after 9 months of not much else to do but think of what he did wrong, he STILL cannot keep his stories straight. The looks on Erin's face as he continues to morph his story are priceless.

Hang up that phone. Walk back into your little white jumpsuit world, Matt Baker. We're done with you. And Kari lives on......despite your greatest efforts.

Thank You, Websleuths.com!

If you haven't already found the best and busiest true crime discussion board around, then you're in for a new treat. Check out Websleuths.com right now! I joined this forum last January just before the trial. There has been an ongoing thread discussing our case since at least 2007 called The Preacher's Wife -- Suicide or Murder?

The owner of Websleuths.com is a true sleuth and an all around amazing person! She has our case highlighted on the front page. Take a look.

Fellow WS member JusticeInWaco is an amazing advocate for justice in the murder case of Kari Baker. She has been given an exclusive interview with Erin Moriarty of 48 hours. The show airs tonight on CBS. You can read Erin's answers and comment on them on JusticeInWaco’s blog. Currently the case has rendered a conviction with a sentence of 65 yrs in prision for the murder of Kari. Kari's mother and father are seeking custody of Kari's two daughters.
Please read and comment on Kari’s case here.
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

In the thread titled, The Preacher's Wife -- Suicide or Murder? I was asked this question earlier this week:

"So, Justice in Waco is Erin as cool in real life as she seems on TV?"

Thought I'd share my answer with you guys here, too:

Yes! My first "time spent" with Erin, her producers and her crew was in January of 2008. I was nervous as all get out to sit down on camera with Erin Moriarty! OMG is not a strong enough phrase. LOL But within minutes, I was completely at ease. Not ready for the interview to be over with actually. Like I said on the blog last night, she and her entire team are the epitome of complete professionalism and complete human-ness. The Producer told me later on the phone that when I was done, there wasn't a dry eye in the house...including cameramen. I don't say to make myself look like "wow" but to show how EVERYONE involved in this story, on all sorts of ends, can't help but be touched by Kari....and her "spirit" that surrounds every single person that fought for her justice.

I don't know if you all know this but someone from 48 Hours (almost always Producer Lisa Freed, sometimes AP Elena DiFiore, and sometimes Erin) was at most of the hearings the year before the actual trial. They would fly down from New York so as not to miss a thing.....get the info and the experience first hand! I honestly can say that they were the only news/investigative journalism team/network to do this. (Correcting this to say the only non-local group to do this. I also want to give a grateful "shout out" to Waco Tribune Herald reporter, Tommy Witherspoon on this. He was most certainly one of THE MOST dedicated reporters during the entire 4+ years....and continuing. Love ya, Tommy!) So I got to spend a little time with these guys at those times. And then they were here during the over-a-week-long trial. Again, very professional. Yet very human. VERY easy to talk to and be with. A fascinating group of very caring, top-notch journalists/reporters.

My experience (and I'll go so far as to speak for Kari's family on this as well) with 48 Hours was far more compassionate than I/we ever imagined it could be. I enjoyed 48 Hours before this. I enjoy AND respect it now ten-fold for having had the chance to personally get to know many of them.

Anyway, that's it for now. After the show airs, 48 Hours will be releasing three web extras. They will, of course, be on their website. I will also put them on the blog as soon as they release them. They will be GOOD ONES!

Matt Baker: Texas Preacher's Interview Used as Evidence in Murder Trial

In Erin's Crimesider report, she shares with us the dilemmas she faced over the years with various interviews she did with Matt. Some even in the presence of his attorney. Matt's stories constantly change before her eyes.....and on camera. Yet he's unabashedly bold in his lies....as if he doesn't remember he's been interviewed before and gave completely contradictory statements at those previous interviews. I mean, seriously, is HE that stupid or does he think the ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD is that stupid? I know. I know. This is how a classic sociopath relates to the world. I am still just stymied by the behavior.

I know Vanessa Bull's testimony probably tied the final knot in Matt's noose. But Matt Baker himself provided the rope. Time and time again.

Matt Baker: Texas Preacher's Interview Used as Evidence in Murder Trial
Posted by Erin Moriarty

"So weeks after our first interview, we knew we had to go back to Baker and ask him about the incriminating evidence against him. This time, I thought, 'He'll never talk.' I was wrong. Again, he sat down for an interview. This time, attorney Gray was at his side. We were very honest with both of them about the dilemma we faced as reporters. Baker lived in Texas, a state without a strong reporter's shield law. I might be forced to hand over my interviews to an aggressive prosecutor.

Did he still want to talk? I asked. Yes, he said. Was he concerned that something he said could be used against him at trial? No problem, I was told. Baker assured me that he was telling the truth and had nothing to worry about. And again, he went into great detail about his wife's death. This time, however, some of the facts had changed. And he denied in this interview as he did in the first that he had been involved in an affair at the time of his wife's death." (Read More)

Angels and Devils: Texas Monthly - Skip Hollandsworth

Angels and Devils
CBS’s 48 Hours fills in the final chapters of the notorious Matt Baker.

by Skip Hollandsworth
November 2010

EXCELLENT piece by Skip! You must go and read the complete piece. But I will tease you with both the first paragraph and the last. ;)

"Reporters hate to get beat, but I have to tip my hat to Erin Moriarty of CBS’s 48 Hours. Tomorrow evening, on Saturday, October 30, CBS is broadcasting back-to-back 48 Hours Mystery programs that examine the case of Matt Baker, the Baptist preacher in Waco who went from talented, up-and-coming pastor to grieving husband whose wife committed suicide to murder suspect maintaining his innocence to convicted killer."

-and-

"In the end, of course, the most riveting character is Matt Baker. He gave plenty of interviews from the beginning of this saga and, incredibly, agreed to sit down with Moriarty for one last post-trial interview. She decimates him with her questions, especially when she asks why Vanessa would come forward with a story that ultimately won over the jury at trial. She also asks him, point-blank, 'Are you ready to finally admit you killed your wife?' Matt’s answer, and the way he looks at Moriarty as he says it, is worth the price of admission alone."

I totally agree. 48 Hours was more dedicated than I could have ever imagined they would be. And I cannot wait to see tomorrow night's shows.

I'll try to find a working link to Skip's original TM story and post it here.

Sneak-peek to beat all sneak-peeks....

I have to say, this sneak-peek is so moving.....so powerful. It's short....but I had to pause it several times just out of emotion. I am just in awe of every single person that fought for the truth and for justice for Kari. Linda Dulin is just such a spiritual hero to me. The way her faith has been strengthened through this is so tragically beautiful. It's easy to get wrapped up in the taudry and vile aspects of this story of adultry, lies and murder. But let us not lose focus in doing so. God has been ever so present and so strong during this time. I know, I know.....it seemed like such a long time coming. But every thing worked out His way and in His time and THAT is why Matt Baker's evil deeds were brought to the light as they were and THAT is why he was convicted of murdering Kari and spending the rest of his life behind bars. God is good. All the time. His presence in the courtroom was palpable. So strong. His lessons of faith and patience and trust through this are not to be forgotten or minimized.


Incredible sneak-peek. Incredible reporting. Have some Kleenex handy.

48 Hours Sneak Peek: Dirty Little Secrets
A preacher's wife is found dead. Now, the "other woman" reveals his dark, murderous secrets. Erin Moriarty reports Saturday, Oct. 30 at 10 p.m. ET/PT.

My Email-Interview with Erin Moriarty

Last week, Lisa Freed, producer with 48 Hours, and I were communicating via email. She mentioned that if I would like to email interview Erin Moriarty, send her some questions and Erin would be happy to answer them for my blog. Well, of course, I took them up on it. I must say that Erin, Producer Lisa Freed and their ENTIRE crew are the epitome of complete professionalism AND complete human-ness. These people care. They really do. And they fight hard to find the truth. Their dedication to this case still astounds me.

I sent my questions in this morning and got my answers tonight. Thanks, Erin and Lisa. For everything.


Shannon: I understand you interviewed Matt before interviewing anyone else for your original story. If I understand correctly, while you found Matt a little creepy, you thought his story could be plausible. At what point did you begin to have doubts about Matt Baker’s story? At what point did your gut tell you, “This guy murdered his wife”?

EM: We started work on this case in the fall of 2007 with an interview with Matt Baker and several discussions about the evidence with Baker’s attorney Guy James Gray. At that point, both my producer, Lisa Freed, and I thought that there was a possibility that Baker was wrongfully accused of killing his wife. The willingness of a defendant to put his case at risk by talking on camera prior to trial gives him credibility. The more Baker talked, we discovered problems with his version of events and inconsistencies in his stories: was Kari awake when he left her that night or was she asleep? He seemed to change his story from interview to interview. Was he having an affair at the time of Kari’s death? He denied it, but the more we spoke to friends of Kari’s and as more and more evidence developed, it began to look like Baker was being less than honest about his personal life. Baker insisted his wife was depressed prior to his death. While it is true that a doctor prescribed her an anti-depressant, we could not find anyone other than Baker and his mother who said that Kari was depressed. On the contrary, close friends described her excitement about prospects of a new job. Most damaging were the reports that Kari had told a friend and psychologist her fears about her husband’s infidelity. The evidence we were encountering didn’t match the story we were hearing from Baker and his attorney. And Baker was unable to adequately explain the inconsistencies in a follow-up interview.

As a reporter, I can not decide on the guilt or innocence of a defendant. I leave that to the jury. However, by the time we aired our first report on the case, in the spring of 2008, I certainly felt that there was enough evidence to warrant a trial.


Shannon: What were the thoughts running through your mind when you heard Vanessa Bulls testifying at the trial? Was there anything she said that totally caught you by surprise?

EM: I have covered dozens of murder trials over the last twenty years, but I have never witnessed testimony as disturbing and unsettling as I heard Vanessa Bulls give at Matt Baker’s trial. The chilling details she says Matt gave about Kari’s death. The fact that this young woman says she knew about plans to kill Kari and never told anyone. The planning she says that went into the heartless act of murder. And if Vanessa is telling the truth, the incredible cruelty Baker showed his wife when he murdered her. I have never heard anything like that and hope I never do again.


Shannon: What part of Kari's story shocked you most as a seasoned reporter?

EM: There were a number of things about Kari’s story and death that disturbed me as a reporter. I was “shocked” by how easily investigators apparently accepted Matt Baker’s version of events despite questionable evidence at the scene. The failure to collect that evidence, compounded by the decision of the Justice of the Peace to determine the cause of death over the phone instead of coming to the scene, made this case ultimately more difficult to prosecute than it should have been.

I was “shocked” by the number of times over the years when various church officials encountered questionable and disturbing behavior on the part of Matt Baker, but did nothing.

But more than shocked by events in this case, I am saddened. Over the last three years, through Kari’s family and friends, I have gotten to know a woman I never met. Her death is a terrible tragedy.


Shannon: Who do you wish you could interview one last time about the case?

EM: I have one regret about our coverage of this case: that I never got to speak personally to Vanessa Bulls and hear her story for myself.


Shannon: In your opinion, what key mistakes were made from the night of Kari’s murder until the time Matt was finally indicted and then convicted four years later? What actions could have been taken to bring to light the facts of this case sooner?

EM: Numerous serious mistakes and mis-steps occurred on the night of Kari’s death. Investigators didn’t collect enough evidence, nor did they take enough photographs of the scene. Investigators didn’t insist on an interview immediately with Matt Baker. The Justice of the Peace didn’t order an autopsy immediately.


Shannon: You have investigated and covered case after case after case like this. What is your advice to family and friends "crying out for justice" for a loved one?

EM: Kari Baker’s story should serve as a lesson to crime scene investigators and family members of people who die under questionable circumstances. Don’t make assumptions. If you believe someone was murdered, don’t give up trying to find the answers. The Dulin’s decision to sue Matt Baker civilly resulted in evidence that the prosecution could use at trial. The prosecutors and investigators kept after Vanessa Bulls despite her continual denials. The lesson of Kari Baker’s story? Don’t give up fighting for your loved ones.


Back to my thoughts tonight:

To those of you that have emailed me through the blog about fighting for your loved ones...........FIGHT! Investigate! Be the opposite of quiet!

After all....

"The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them." ~LM Bujold

Moriarty's Reporter's Notebook

Check out Moriarty's Reporter's Notebook..... And don't forget 48 Hours, this Saturday, CBS 8-10 CST

Moriarty's Reporter's Notebook

48 Hours Mystery Correspondent Erin Moriarty previews her double feature on the case of Matt Baker- a Texas preacher charged with killing his wife and the "other woman" who exposes his "Dirty Little Secrets."

And she's so right. Once you watch these two hours, you will realize there is no mystery at all what happened to Kari Baker. Well, only one mystery. What the heck took so long?

Lots of goodies coming up before and even after the show airs. Stay tuned....

Comment from Kerrville

Wanted to share this comment from Kerrville left on the Wondering..... post a couple days ago:

"I live in Kerrville, as a matter of fact, I attend the same church as Matt's parents and deal with his mother through the high school. I check this blog regularly for updates. I read all documents I can on this case. I refuse to be like other members of our church who refuse to see the truth. Anyone who reads as much about this case as I have and does not realize he is guilty, needs to re-read the documents!"

From those that have left comments here and there and/or emailed me directly, I do believe this is the resounding feeling from down Kerrville way. The sheep's clothing has fallen off this wolf. Completely. Permanently.

48 Hours - Saturday, October 30

The "48 Hours" we have all been looking forward to is almost here. Set your DVR's for this coming Saturday, October 30 for 8-10PM Central. Yes, 2 hours! From what I understand this is 48 Hours first 2 hour, back-to-back special. And goodness........the hours and hours of dedicated footage they had over the years.....squished into 2 hours. I have no doubt it will be nothing short of amazing.


The first hour will be basically a re-cap of "The Preacher's Wife" with some updates. The second hour is named, I think, "Dirty Little Secrets."

I will be posting on teasers, web extras and other goodies throughout the week. Stay tuned.
For now, here's a link:

48 Hours Preview: Dirty Little Secrets

A preacher's wife is found dead. Now, the other woman reveals his dark,
murderous secrets. Erin Moriarty reports on a special double episode, Saturday,
Oct. 30 beginning at 9 p.m. ET/PT.

Judge reversals his dismissal of custody case

The words I left you with last week after Judge's dismissal of the custody case....

"God has a plan. He is in control. Our faith is strong."

Wow! How amazingly has God rewarded his faithful and steadfast children! A huge blessing of wonderful news came yesterday. Judge Emerson has reversed his dismissal of the case and the custody case is back on track....with no delays stemming from last week's events!

Judge reinstates Dulins' case in custody battle for Matt Baker's children
WacoTrib.com
Tommy Witherspoon

"A Kerrville judge Friday reversed his ruling from last week that dismissed a lawsuit in which Kari Baker’s parents were seeking primary custody of their two granddaughters.

The new order, issued by 198th State District Judge M. Rex Emerson, reinstates the custody lawsuit between Jim and Linda Dulin, of Waco, and Oscar and Barbara Baker, of Kerrville, parents of former Baptist minister Matt Baker." (read more)

I will try to find out more about the mysteries surrounding all of this dismissal/reversal of dismissal. If anyone has anything to share or help explain any of this, please feel free to email me at JusticeForKari@gmail.com. In the article, it says that when the Dulins were contacted about this yesterday afternoon, they already knew but could not give comment because of the gag order. When Barbara was contacted about this, she didn't know yet. The Dulins are so very blessed with top notch attorneys that keep them so informed and up to date.

The trial is still on for January. The Judge has also ordered that the children and parties timely initiate counseling and testing as recommended previously. The Dulins have always been in favor of counseling and welcomed any and all studies to help determine the the best, healthiest and healing environment for the girls. Their first court appearance after Kari's death was for a court order for counseling because Matt refused to get them any. After one session, Matt moved the girls to Kerrville and that was the end of that. Adults going through the kinds of ongoing trama the girls have been through would need counseling. Children deserve no less.

Please continue to pray for Kensi and Grace. Also keep the prayers going for wisdom and strength for the Judge and the lawyers involved. And prayers for Linda and Jim and their family......prayers for continued amazing faith, strength and peace.

Wondering.....

There sure is an awful lot of traffic on the blog from Kerrville today. Hmmm......

Faith sustains....

A friend of Linda's shared this passage from a book she's reading with her this weekend and Linda passed it on to me. Now, I am sharing it with you. It speaks so boldly about our faith in God and how He manages to sustain us and hold us close even when we don't know how exactly we will carry on.

In the darkest hours of the Warsaw ghetto, as Jewish families witnessed the destruction of their world, a rabbi shared, “You can weep over your suffering until you despair, or you can feel in your weeping that God weeps along with you.” This is my God. Not God who is the source of my suffering. But rather, God who ...shares the burden of my sorrow and who promises me that never need I suffer alone.

God has a plan. He is in control. Our faith is strong.


Note: The Dulin's attorneys immediately filed to find the facts of the judge's decision. At the very least, they deserve to know what he based his quick decision on. I will post more about the hearing later. I have heard from a few people that were there. It's just very bizarre.