48 Hours Web Extra - Prison Interview with Matt

Matt Baker Talks to "48 Hours"
"In January 2010, Matt Baker was convicted of murdering his wife and sentenced to 65 years in prison. Nearly nine months later, Erin Moriarty interviewed him at the Polunsky Unit in Livingston, Texas - his fourth interview with '48 Hours.' Baker continues to maintain his innocence."

It is truly amazing that even after 9 months of not much else to do but think of what he did wrong, he STILL cannot keep his stories straight. The looks on Erin's face as he continues to morph his story are priceless.

Hang up that phone. Walk back into your little white jumpsuit world, Matt Baker. We're done with you. And Kari lives on......despite your greatest efforts.

Thank You, Websleuths.com!

If you haven't already found the best and busiest true crime discussion board around, then you're in for a new treat. Check out Websleuths.com right now! I joined this forum last January just before the trial. There has been an ongoing thread discussing our case since at least 2007 called The Preacher's Wife -- Suicide or Murder?

The owner of Websleuths.com is a true sleuth and an all around amazing person! She has our case highlighted on the front page. Take a look.

Fellow WS member JusticeInWaco is an amazing advocate for justice in the murder case of Kari Baker. She has been given an exclusive interview with Erin Moriarty of 48 hours. The show airs tonight on CBS. You can read Erin's answers and comment on them on JusticeInWaco’s blog. Currently the case has rendered a conviction with a sentence of 65 yrs in prision for the murder of Kari. Kari's mother and father are seeking custody of Kari's two daughters.
Please read and comment on Kari’s case here.
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

In the thread titled, The Preacher's Wife -- Suicide or Murder? I was asked this question earlier this week:

"So, Justice in Waco is Erin as cool in real life as she seems on TV?"

Thought I'd share my answer with you guys here, too:

Yes! My first "time spent" with Erin, her producers and her crew was in January of 2008. I was nervous as all get out to sit down on camera with Erin Moriarty! OMG is not a strong enough phrase. LOL But within minutes, I was completely at ease. Not ready for the interview to be over with actually. Like I said on the blog last night, she and her entire team are the epitome of complete professionalism and complete human-ness. The Producer told me later on the phone that when I was done, there wasn't a dry eye in the house...including cameramen. I don't say to make myself look like "wow" but to show how EVERYONE involved in this story, on all sorts of ends, can't help but be touched by Kari....and her "spirit" that surrounds every single person that fought for her justice.

I don't know if you all know this but someone from 48 Hours (almost always Producer Lisa Freed, sometimes AP Elena DiFiore, and sometimes Erin) was at most of the hearings the year before the actual trial. They would fly down from New York so as not to miss a thing.....get the info and the experience first hand! I honestly can say that they were the only news/investigative journalism team/network to do this. (Correcting this to say the only non-local group to do this. I also want to give a grateful "shout out" to Waco Tribune Herald reporter, Tommy Witherspoon on this. He was most certainly one of THE MOST dedicated reporters during the entire 4+ years....and continuing. Love ya, Tommy!) So I got to spend a little time with these guys at those times. And then they were here during the over-a-week-long trial. Again, very professional. Yet very human. VERY easy to talk to and be with. A fascinating group of very caring, top-notch journalists/reporters.

My experience (and I'll go so far as to speak for Kari's family on this as well) with 48 Hours was far more compassionate than I/we ever imagined it could be. I enjoyed 48 Hours before this. I enjoy AND respect it now ten-fold for having had the chance to personally get to know many of them.

Anyway, that's it for now. After the show airs, 48 Hours will be releasing three web extras. They will, of course, be on their website. I will also put them on the blog as soon as they release them. They will be GOOD ONES!

Matt Baker: Texas Preacher's Interview Used as Evidence in Murder Trial

In Erin's Crimesider report, she shares with us the dilemmas she faced over the years with various interviews she did with Matt. Some even in the presence of his attorney. Matt's stories constantly change before her eyes.....and on camera. Yet he's unabashedly bold in his lies....as if he doesn't remember he's been interviewed before and gave completely contradictory statements at those previous interviews. I mean, seriously, is HE that stupid or does he think the ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD is that stupid? I know. I know. This is how a classic sociopath relates to the world. I am still just stymied by the behavior.

I know Vanessa Bull's testimony probably tied the final knot in Matt's noose. But Matt Baker himself provided the rope. Time and time again.

Matt Baker: Texas Preacher's Interview Used as Evidence in Murder Trial
Posted by Erin Moriarty

"So weeks after our first interview, we knew we had to go back to Baker and ask him about the incriminating evidence against him. This time, I thought, 'He'll never talk.' I was wrong. Again, he sat down for an interview. This time, attorney Gray was at his side. We were very honest with both of them about the dilemma we faced as reporters. Baker lived in Texas, a state without a strong reporter's shield law. I might be forced to hand over my interviews to an aggressive prosecutor.

Did he still want to talk? I asked. Yes, he said. Was he concerned that something he said could be used against him at trial? No problem, I was told. Baker assured me that he was telling the truth and had nothing to worry about. And again, he went into great detail about his wife's death. This time, however, some of the facts had changed. And he denied in this interview as he did in the first that he had been involved in an affair at the time of his wife's death." (Read More)

Angels and Devils: Texas Monthly - Skip Hollandsworth

Angels and Devils
CBS’s 48 Hours fills in the final chapters of the notorious Matt Baker.

by Skip Hollandsworth
November 2010

EXCELLENT piece by Skip! You must go and read the complete piece. But I will tease you with both the first paragraph and the last. ;)

"Reporters hate to get beat, but I have to tip my hat to Erin Moriarty of CBS’s 48 Hours. Tomorrow evening, on Saturday, October 30, CBS is broadcasting back-to-back 48 Hours Mystery programs that examine the case of Matt Baker, the Baptist preacher in Waco who went from talented, up-and-coming pastor to grieving husband whose wife committed suicide to murder suspect maintaining his innocence to convicted killer."

-and-

"In the end, of course, the most riveting character is Matt Baker. He gave plenty of interviews from the beginning of this saga and, incredibly, agreed to sit down with Moriarty for one last post-trial interview. She decimates him with her questions, especially when she asks why Vanessa would come forward with a story that ultimately won over the jury at trial. She also asks him, point-blank, 'Are you ready to finally admit you killed your wife?' Matt’s answer, and the way he looks at Moriarty as he says it, is worth the price of admission alone."

I totally agree. 48 Hours was more dedicated than I could have ever imagined they would be. And I cannot wait to see tomorrow night's shows.

I'll try to find a working link to Skip's original TM story and post it here.

Sneak-peek to beat all sneak-peeks....

I have to say, this sneak-peek is so moving.....so powerful. It's short....but I had to pause it several times just out of emotion. I am just in awe of every single person that fought for the truth and for justice for Kari. Linda Dulin is just such a spiritual hero to me. The way her faith has been strengthened through this is so tragically beautiful. It's easy to get wrapped up in the taudry and vile aspects of this story of adultry, lies and murder. But let us not lose focus in doing so. God has been ever so present and so strong during this time. I know, I know.....it seemed like such a long time coming. But every thing worked out His way and in His time and THAT is why Matt Baker's evil deeds were brought to the light as they were and THAT is why he was convicted of murdering Kari and spending the rest of his life behind bars. God is good. All the time. His presence in the courtroom was palpable. So strong. His lessons of faith and patience and trust through this are not to be forgotten or minimized.


Incredible sneak-peek. Incredible reporting. Have some Kleenex handy.

48 Hours Sneak Peek: Dirty Little Secrets
A preacher's wife is found dead. Now, the "other woman" reveals his dark, murderous secrets. Erin Moriarty reports Saturday, Oct. 30 at 10 p.m. ET/PT.

My Email-Interview with Erin Moriarty

Last week, Lisa Freed, producer with 48 Hours, and I were communicating via email. She mentioned that if I would like to email interview Erin Moriarty, send her some questions and Erin would be happy to answer them for my blog. Well, of course, I took them up on it. I must say that Erin, Producer Lisa Freed and their ENTIRE crew are the epitome of complete professionalism AND complete human-ness. These people care. They really do. And they fight hard to find the truth. Their dedication to this case still astounds me.

I sent my questions in this morning and got my answers tonight. Thanks, Erin and Lisa. For everything.


Shannon: I understand you interviewed Matt before interviewing anyone else for your original story. If I understand correctly, while you found Matt a little creepy, you thought his story could be plausible. At what point did you begin to have doubts about Matt Baker’s story? At what point did your gut tell you, “This guy murdered his wife”?

EM: We started work on this case in the fall of 2007 with an interview with Matt Baker and several discussions about the evidence with Baker’s attorney Guy James Gray. At that point, both my producer, Lisa Freed, and I thought that there was a possibility that Baker was wrongfully accused of killing his wife. The willingness of a defendant to put his case at risk by talking on camera prior to trial gives him credibility. The more Baker talked, we discovered problems with his version of events and inconsistencies in his stories: was Kari awake when he left her that night or was she asleep? He seemed to change his story from interview to interview. Was he having an affair at the time of Kari’s death? He denied it, but the more we spoke to friends of Kari’s and as more and more evidence developed, it began to look like Baker was being less than honest about his personal life. Baker insisted his wife was depressed prior to his death. While it is true that a doctor prescribed her an anti-depressant, we could not find anyone other than Baker and his mother who said that Kari was depressed. On the contrary, close friends described her excitement about prospects of a new job. Most damaging were the reports that Kari had told a friend and psychologist her fears about her husband’s infidelity. The evidence we were encountering didn’t match the story we were hearing from Baker and his attorney. And Baker was unable to adequately explain the inconsistencies in a follow-up interview.

As a reporter, I can not decide on the guilt or innocence of a defendant. I leave that to the jury. However, by the time we aired our first report on the case, in the spring of 2008, I certainly felt that there was enough evidence to warrant a trial.


Shannon: What were the thoughts running through your mind when you heard Vanessa Bulls testifying at the trial? Was there anything she said that totally caught you by surprise?

EM: I have covered dozens of murder trials over the last twenty years, but I have never witnessed testimony as disturbing and unsettling as I heard Vanessa Bulls give at Matt Baker’s trial. The chilling details she says Matt gave about Kari’s death. The fact that this young woman says she knew about plans to kill Kari and never told anyone. The planning she says that went into the heartless act of murder. And if Vanessa is telling the truth, the incredible cruelty Baker showed his wife when he murdered her. I have never heard anything like that and hope I never do again.


Shannon: What part of Kari's story shocked you most as a seasoned reporter?

EM: There were a number of things about Kari’s story and death that disturbed me as a reporter. I was “shocked” by how easily investigators apparently accepted Matt Baker’s version of events despite questionable evidence at the scene. The failure to collect that evidence, compounded by the decision of the Justice of the Peace to determine the cause of death over the phone instead of coming to the scene, made this case ultimately more difficult to prosecute than it should have been.

I was “shocked” by the number of times over the years when various church officials encountered questionable and disturbing behavior on the part of Matt Baker, but did nothing.

But more than shocked by events in this case, I am saddened. Over the last three years, through Kari’s family and friends, I have gotten to know a woman I never met. Her death is a terrible tragedy.


Shannon: Who do you wish you could interview one last time about the case?

EM: I have one regret about our coverage of this case: that I never got to speak personally to Vanessa Bulls and hear her story for myself.


Shannon: In your opinion, what key mistakes were made from the night of Kari’s murder until the time Matt was finally indicted and then convicted four years later? What actions could have been taken to bring to light the facts of this case sooner?

EM: Numerous serious mistakes and mis-steps occurred on the night of Kari’s death. Investigators didn’t collect enough evidence, nor did they take enough photographs of the scene. Investigators didn’t insist on an interview immediately with Matt Baker. The Justice of the Peace didn’t order an autopsy immediately.


Shannon: You have investigated and covered case after case after case like this. What is your advice to family and friends "crying out for justice" for a loved one?

EM: Kari Baker’s story should serve as a lesson to crime scene investigators and family members of people who die under questionable circumstances. Don’t make assumptions. If you believe someone was murdered, don’t give up trying to find the answers. The Dulin’s decision to sue Matt Baker civilly resulted in evidence that the prosecution could use at trial. The prosecutors and investigators kept after Vanessa Bulls despite her continual denials. The lesson of Kari Baker’s story? Don’t give up fighting for your loved ones.


Back to my thoughts tonight:

To those of you that have emailed me through the blog about fighting for your loved ones...........FIGHT! Investigate! Be the opposite of quiet!

After all....

"The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them." ~LM Bujold

Moriarty's Reporter's Notebook

Check out Moriarty's Reporter's Notebook..... And don't forget 48 Hours, this Saturday, CBS 8-10 CST

Moriarty's Reporter's Notebook

48 Hours Mystery Correspondent Erin Moriarty previews her double feature on the case of Matt Baker- a Texas preacher charged with killing his wife and the "other woman" who exposes his "Dirty Little Secrets."

And she's so right. Once you watch these two hours, you will realize there is no mystery at all what happened to Kari Baker. Well, only one mystery. What the heck took so long?

Lots of goodies coming up before and even after the show airs. Stay tuned....

48 Hours - Saturday, October 30

The "48 Hours" we have all been looking forward to is almost here. Set your DVR's for this coming Saturday, October 30 for 8-10PM Central. Yes, 2 hours! From what I understand this is 48 Hours first 2 hour, back-to-back special. And goodness........the hours and hours of dedicated footage they had over the years.....squished into 2 hours. I have no doubt it will be nothing short of amazing.


The first hour will be basically a re-cap of "The Preacher's Wife" with some updates. The second hour is named, I think, "Dirty Little Secrets."

I will be posting on teasers, web extras and other goodies throughout the week. Stay tuned.
For now, here's a link:

48 Hours Preview: Dirty Little Secrets

A preacher's wife is found dead. Now, the other woman reveals his dark,
murderous secrets. Erin Moriarty reports on a special double episode, Saturday,
Oct. 30 beginning at 9 p.m. ET/PT.

Watch 48 Hours Episode....

CBSnews.com has put "The Preacher's Wife" in its entirety on their website. So if you missed it, you can see it here.

After talking to many people from Kerrville, it would appear that the "Supporters of Matt Panel" on 48 Hours are mostly people that knew him as a child and that are friends and loyal to his parents, more so than to Matt. What they know of Matt as an adult, is post-Kari, post-arrested-for-murder, in full-defense-you-gotta-believe-me mode. And I know of at least one or two of the people that were shown on the panel regret their early-on, not-knowing-the-evidence, support of Matt and have been mortified as it comes out. That's just that I know of. I'm sure there's more. Don't think that the mass of Kerrville folks are on his side. I've heard from too many that say they, and those around them, firmly believe in Matt's guilt. Kerrville is full of wonderful, wise people.

And again, this 48 Hours was recorded and compiled over a year ago before reams and reams and reams of evidence against Matt was made public. All before his mistress spoke out to the Grand Jury and spilled something so damning that she got immunity out of telling what she knew. This is huge. At the time the show was filmed, the people on that panel had no idea about these things as they were hidden from them by the defense wanting both moral and financial support.

The first part is mainly from Matt's point of view. Keep in mind, though, that much of what he says can conveniently only be confirmed by him....since Kari is no longer here. Gives him lots of room for completely making things up. Whatever he wants to say to make Kari look depressed and/or suicidal. EVERYONE else that was around Kari says the exact opposite about her attitude, demeanor and outlook on life. So you decide who you believe...a confirmed, caught-in-the-act-dozens-of-times liar on trial for murder....or everyone else.

The rest of the show catches Matt in lies and inconsistencies and compete impossibilities of his "story" of that night being possible. And the show had access to and/or was allowed to focus in on such a small, tiny percentage of the evidence available. Imagine if it was a fresh show with all the new evidence. You come away with the feeling Matt is guilty after this? Just wait. September is coming.

Watching it again....

It's so hard to stomach all of Matt's obvious lies. So many are actually pointed out on the show. So many....so little time. There is so much concrete evidence that 48 Hours didn't have time to show....or might have not been allowed to show at that time. It's coming out now, isn't it? So much coming in Fall of 2009. Put on your seatbelts.

I watched this show with Brody tonight. His poignant remarks and observations astound me. I'm still in shock that my now 12 year old son and I are here watching this, crying, knowing, waiting. I'll never forget telling my son that weekend that Mrs. Baker was dead. I'll never forget in the next year (because of the arrest and it coming up in the news) having to tell him what I knew all along.... The look in his eyes. He's much wiser now. But it's not all that much easier.

There have been over 361 different visitors on this blog just in the last hour tonight. I can't count how many of you are on here as I write this. But the love and dedication to Kari's memory and the fight for justice is obviously felt by so many. God bless you all. Hang on. Justice is coming. And it's coming hard. Not fast. But hard.

Moriarty's Reporter's Notebook

"Erin Moriarty talks about her upcoming report on Matt and Kari Baker. After Kari died, Matt - a preacher - found himself accused of murder." ~ CBSNews.com

Watch CBS Videos Online

This was made last year just before the original airing of "The Preacher's Wife." Be sure and watch tonight with updates on recent events.

48 Hours Update

48 Hours will be airing an update on the Baker case June 9, Tuesday, from 9-10 pm. Be sure to tune in! 48 Hours has really done their homework and they have traveled to Waco several times to keep personally up to date.

CLARIFICATION: They will re-air "The Preacher's Wife" that was on 48 Hours last year and then follow up with info and footage of Matt's arrest, arraignment, indictment and other recent events in the case.

"Judgment Day for the Preacher"

Erin Moriarty (who did a brilliant job with the 48 Hours piece on this case last year) writes her thoughts in an update on the case on In Cold Blog: Judgment Day for the Preacher

"So what happened that caused new charges to file against Baker almost three years after the death of his wife?

Apparently, a friend of Baker’s, a young woman he was 'seeing' at the time of his wife’s death, convinced the grand jurors that there was more than meets the eye to Kari’s death, a death originally listed as a suicide." (read full story here)

Here is a link to Erin's first blog post about this case, dated 5-21-08.
"The Preacher's Wife"

In Cold Blog...

In Cold Blog is a very interesting and busy blog with various contributors in the true crime arena. Today's featured writer is 48 Hours' Erin Moriarty and she discusses a few of her thoughts on the Baker case:


"It is a tragic situation that could have been avoided if a couple of police officers and a Justice of the Peace had just asked a few more questions instead of jumping to a conclusion on that April night two years ago."

Click here to read her post in its entirety.

Computer Issues

In an effort to try to do some explaining about the computer question raised in a comment under the 48 Hours post, an anonymous commentor C&P'd a portion of an interview published in the Waco Trib back in December of 2007. I won't post it all here because it's lengthy. I don't think this Q&A is still available on the WacoTrib.com site. But if you want to see what was sent to me, email me and I'll send it to you.

Anyway, I appreciate your time and effort and research on this. But I don't think the report on 48 Hours said the home computer mysteriously disappeared. The report said the hard drive on that one crashed. The computer from his work is the one that mysteriously disappeared. Now, if you can find an article or interview stating where THAT is, I'd love to see it. Authorities would love to see it.

48 Hours

CBS/48 Hours has placed the episode on their website. You can click on the link below to watch it in its' entirety.

The Preacher's Wife

More on 48 Hours

From the website of CBS and 48 Hours:

"The dark side of a Baptist preacher is exposed after the sudden death of his young wife - was someone playing God?"
Read more....

"Did this bright young loving mother really take her own life?
Or, did her preacher husband commit the ultimate sin?
48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty sits down with Kari’s family and her mother, Linda, who opens up for the first time on television, this Saturday, May 10, at 10 p.m. ET/PT."
(9:00 Texas time)

48 Hours

48 Hours is finally upon us. I know that all sides of the case have been interviewing and working with 48 Hours for months. My first contact with the producers was back in December of 2007....and I know that they had been talking with the key people of interest in this case even before that. I know it's been a long road and lots of emotions for everyone. Baring one's heart and soul on national television in the hopes of the grand results helping everyone move closer to receiving the justice they deserve isn't easy or comfortable or flippant. It's heartwrenching.

Well, now it's time to see what the good folks with CBS and 48 Hours have compiled from their hours, days, weeks and months of research and interviews. Having met with Erin Moriarty and the producers myself, I find them incredibly fascinating. They really love their job, are very interested in the case and they are a top-notch bunch. I think we all look forward to their compilation of work. The show airs Saturday, May 10, at 10 p.m. ET/PT. (That's 9:00 for Texas)

Take a minute to view the following video clip of Erin's thoughts on the case.
(Before watching - scroll down to the bottom of this page and pause or stop the music so you can hear the audio on the videos below)




Moriarty's Reporter's Notebook - Erin Moriarty talks about her upcoming report on Matt and Kari Baker. After Kari died, Matt - a preacher - found himself accused of murder.

More later....